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CategoriesNooks and also cranniesYesteryearSemantic enigmasThe body beautifulRed tape, white liesSpeculative scienceThis sceptred isleRoot of all evilEthical conundrumsThis sporting lifeStage and also screenBirds and also the bees NOOKS AND CRANNIESIs it true that the pronunciation of Spanish changed because a king had actually a lisp? So Barcelona became "Barthelona". If so, which king was it?Robert Smith, Zilina, Slovakia I heard this rumour as well yet also heard a conflicting one that the lisp comes from the same tendencies in Arabic and originates in the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsula. I also believe that the lisp is only commonlocation in Castillian Spanish, so while a Madridillo could pronounce it Barthelona, in Barcelona itself the c would certainly be pronounced as an "s" quite than a "th". Seth Chanas, Edinburgh, Scotland If that were so, wouldn"t we be off to Thpain? Stella Alvarez, London, UK The story around the lisping king is commonly told, but cannot be actual, bereason if it were, "s" would be lisped too, however just "c" and also "z" are. Colin Fine, Bradford, UK Castilian Spanish of the Center Ages had originally two distinct sounds for what we now think of as the "lisp": the cedilla, and also the z as in "dezir". The cedilla made a "ts" sound and also the "z" a "dz" sound. Both in time were simplified into the "lisp", or what Spaniards call the "ceceo".Incidentally, this instance replicates the two sounds represented by "zz" in Tuscan Italian - "ts" in "pizza", "dz" in "azzuro" - which, in the Modenese dialect, are both pronounced choose English "th". John Bennett, Glasgow, Scotland The factor why people in Barcelona pronounce it "Barselona" is that they speak Catalan, not Castillian. Catalan does not have the "c" pronounced as "th". Amazing. Lau, Brussels, Belgium I don"t know around Spanish, however I seem to remember my Old History textbook saying that Alcibiades was so influential through the young of Athens that they took up his lisp, therefore changing forever the pronunciation of Attic greek. (The attic equivelent of estuary english, or "Yo, dude ... "?) Lane Blume, Marrickville, Australia A friend of mine is from Barcelona and he speaks Catalan yet he pronounces it with a "th" sound not "s". Maybe his Spanish teacher at school was from another component of Spain! Corrie, London, England How is it that the Latin Amerideserve to nations carry out not use the "th" sound when they deserve to only have been taught the Spanish language by Cortez and his friends? This would certainly indicate that Cortez himself did not usage the "th" sound nor most likely those of his aquaintance also in fact those at the Spanish court. Michael Baines, Cardiff, Wales, UK King Alfrecarry out. William Petitte, Fairfield Ct. There is no such thing as a "spanish lisp" if tright here was tright here would certainly be no "s" in the spanish language.This is an ignorant assumption made by southern americans because they are not able to stop the language correctly. C and also Z are the identical to the english "th" while s is S and pronounced as S...such as Salamanca. South Americans soptimal through the "s" sound for "Z" and also "C" because of change in the language, just favor Americans soptimal differently from the British. This is an metropolitan legfinish, and a shame to the spanish language, which is castillian. Andres, Greenwich United States My boy went to Barcelona and also sassist everyone from that area that he heard sassist Barcelona via a th sound. Supposedly bereason a young Dauphin had a lisp and also wanted everyone to sound choose him. Ebiza additionally has a th sound to rearea the Z sound. But that knows what the beginning is for certain. F Hastings, Woodstock , Vt USA This is ridiculous to think. The lisp is because of a certain dialect, just prefer tright here are a selection of dialects in every language. If world just adjusted the way they spoke so they wouldn"t insult the king, why would certainly the lisp proceed after the king died? And exactly how would it be socialized right into their children? Seeing as they wouldn"t need to lisp unless the king was roughly. It"s just among those silly stories to make an entertaining beginning of somepoint that"s really not all that strange or exciting. Daniel, Ontario USA Here in the US, we"ve watched radical pronunciations of nations, continents--also some of Earth"s well-established individuals by US Pinhabitants -- then universally imitated by the whole North Amerideserve to population. Obvious examples would certainly be Ronald Reagans Granada to "grah-nay-dah"; George W. Bush"s Iraq to "eye-rack" and also Muslimphobia rants around the "eye-ranians"We here immediately follow our leader"s pronunciations, easily and unapologetically repeating these "official" pronunciations en masse - from information media to Mass at church.It wasn"t Americans who developed the lisping management company, as somebody previously suggested, bereason 98% of us below couldn"t discover Spain on a map if our resides depended upon it. Cary Harrichild, West Hollyhardwood, The golden state, USA Cary Harrison"s logic is precise. that is why all fellow denizens of the Bear Republic pronounce their residence state as cal-ee-FOR-nee-ah. because human being in north america all instantly readjust the means they pronounced words based on how political leaders carry out, that totality design brand-new pronunciations just to show off exactly how arrogant and stupid Americans are. i"m so glad Cary Harriboy is approximately to illuminate the rest of the people to these dumb amerihave the right to ways. Jaroslav Hasek, Prague Czech, Republic WOW. All of you have it wrong! Are you all guessing?Barcelona was once a big Greek swarm. When they were romanized they spoke latin via a Greek accent. As you understand, vulgar latin developed into Spanish. The peoples in that area stop in that fashion bereason of their Greek linguistic heritage.Not everyone in Spain speaks this way. Ted Davis, Toronto, Canada As has actually been pointed out by many kind of human being, the lisp story is a myth. It is not lisp. It is simply the way the z, and also the c once complied with by an i or an e, are pronounced in the Spanish of Northern and Central Spain.As to the pronunciation of Barcelona, in Catalan it is pronounced virtually the exact same as in English. The only difference would be the slightly various pronunciation of the l and the o.For those who have heard Catalan world pronounce it as "Barthelona", that was most likely bereason they were speaking Spanish: in the variety of Spanish spoken in Catalonia it is pronounced "Barthelona". But if they were speaking Catalan then they were simply pronouncing it wrong, because the "th" sound does not also exist in Catalan. If they were speaking English, then this was probably because of a type of code switching: bereason Spanish is a more worldwide language, some Catalans, consciously or sub-consciously, will pronounce words the Spanish way fairly than the Catalan method because they think, normally wrongly, that they"re making it simpler for the international listener to understand. Timothy Barton, Sant Quirze del Vallès Catalonia "If that were so, wouldn"t we be off to Thpain?"Actually, recalling the specific pronunciation of a Spanish frifinish of mine--we"d be off to Ethpain. Greg, Slough UK why would we be "off to thpain"?? there"s no c in spain. the pronounciation of c prior to i or e perplexed me for years. having been taught to lisp the c in gracias, for example, i travelcaused different components of spain on 4 occassions and also never before heard a "lisp" as soon as. its choose any type of language, if you tried to explain local/regional dialects in britain to foreign speakers via rules it would certainly be practically impossible!im off to thpain. i suppose spain ryan, belquick n ireland also In Columbus first expedition, sailors were volunteers from Andalucian prisons. Their means of speaking Spanish, supushing the letter "S" at the end of words and also the "JOTEO" or pronunciation of middle "S" as a Spanish "J" sound, is what is known this day as Caribbean accent. It spreview all over the shore of Colombia and Venezuela, and in Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico. Some "Rs" are pronounced as the letter "L". In later on trips, adventurers and conquerors from the North of Spain brought their very own accent. The "S" pronounced via the pointer of the tongue elevated and also emotional the top teeth gum ridge is still prevalent in the accent of Colombia´s coffee growing region. They are well-known in Colombia as "Paisas".The letter "S" in neutral accent does not use the tongue at all. Rene Figueroa-Locutor, Bogota, Colombia In a means the "lisping" of the letters c and z in Spanish in specific components of Spain is a refinement in that it distinguishes their sound from that of the letter s making the language even more "phonetic". nora coryell, Jackkid, USA I believe the Greek answer fits finest. If you look at the last letter in Spanish, it is zeta. In Madrid one would pronounce it theta. There is a Greek letter theta. Greeks settled the Italian peninsula and also Spain (the Malicians and also right into later times). That th sound makes Spanish (in Madrid) the just truly phonetic Spanish. The Spanish further south perform not use the th pronunciation. The Americas were settled by mainly immigrants from Southern Spain, so of course they do not have actually the th. (The Cubans have actually the closest to Andalucian as they drop their final s"s.) And the Argentinians were settled by many type of French and also Italian speakers, so they say zho for yo and cazhes for calles. No dialetics are wrong. Just various. Isn"t range the spice of life? Doug Jonschild, Portland also, Oregon USA Ryan, he meant that if it was a true lisp then all s sounds would be pronounced th. I.e.: the lisp is not selective based non letter arrangement however sound.Thee ya. jordi, bangor uk To Andres Greenwich why would certainly you be such a pompous ass to say that it"s ignorant Southern Americans that propagate that rumor once I"ve heard it from people as far as Canada? Not extremely nice Andres Brad, New Orleans USA Canadian Comedian Russll peters has the very same king story in his show, its awesome and also incredibly funny here is the attach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1isS8irYrew Edgar, Toronto, Canada That"s wrong, we have our own language in Catalunya(wfor this reason barcelona region develops part).Our language is Catalanand we pronunciate Barcelona as /Barsalona/and also in Spanish language (the second language of our regions)is pronuncied as:/Barthelona/ Arnau, Barcelona Catalunya Visca Barcelona Bob, Manchester Chorkor You males need to soptimal spanalysis metropolitan legfinish and just look in Wikipedia (Spanish phonology) which htoo documented linguistic resources. C was pronounced ts and a was pronounced dz; these became th in Madrid but s in Andalusia (southern Spain). Many inhabitants in The Americas came from Southern Spain so in the Americas c z and also s are all pronounced s. Brian, Atlanta USA No issue what the topic, you deserve to count on a comment by a self-flagellating American-- with Europeans later piling on. So Michael Harrikid assumes 98% of Americans have no idea where Spain is, and also he interprets easy mispronunciation as Islamophobia. I guess we dare not ever before cite that Muslims are responsible 99% of the world"s terrorism--just how politically incorrect would that be? Ed Anderboy, Philadelphia USA John Bennett is ideal, simply think of exactly how you pronounce pizza in English.However, not all of Spain offers that pronunciation, particularly north main Andalucía and also the Canary Islands.Most immigrants to the Americas (although not all) came from those 2 areas.Also, "th" was only coming to be conventional in Spain at the moment Spanish immigration to the Americas initially started.The finish of the story being, it simply didn"t capture on right here. Sam Smith, New York, US My 10th grade Spanish teacher stupassed away Spanish at the University of Madrid. Since that university was her area of research, she taught us to sheight Castillian Spanish (utilizing the lisp with C"s, and also Z"s). My dad remained in the Air Force, and also as soon as I was 18, obtained his orders to PCS to Torrejon AFB, Madrid. I recognize from living there that they perform soptimal through a lisp because of a previous king. It is only this form of Spanish that provides this lisp (the Madrid area). Other components of Spain do not usage the lisp as soon as pronouncing C"s, and also Z"s. Kris, Anchorage USA "Cary Harrison"s logic is specific... because world in north america... create brand-new pronunciations simply to present off exactly how arrogant and stupid Americans are. ...these dumb american ways."Coutesy of: Jaroslav Hasek, Prague Czech, RepublicInteresting Jarolsav. If such comments were made about Israelis or Kenyans one could think you were xenophobic, spouting hate speech. Perhaps it"s worth consideration that some of the height universities in the world reside in the States and also human being leaders in modern technology, science, art and many various other areas just take place to be citizens of a country that renders up a mere 5% of human being population. Perhaps Jarolsav has actually been watching also a lot tv, which appears to have a reasonably one-way lens, concentrating and also judging the US awide. How convenient and also timely. Mainstream media spreads the worst of US society like manure throughout the continents for the gullible like Jarolsav to consume. Traveling two decades back, a fair number of Europeans were unfortunately ignorant enough to think the US was some develop of the television present Dallas. You are what you eat Jarolsav. What is your experience? -Hollytimber movies, a pilgrimage to New York, better yet... Miami! If you think you recognize someone Jarolsav, or somearea, or say a civilization based upon experiences that are not your very own, you are most likely sadly misincreated. Or it might be a issue of, "the agency you store." I"m wondering if this is the situation for you? By the way, it"s a true truth, King Pedro I de Castilla had actually a lisp. But, by great fortune for the King, the organic development of the "th"s" linguistic advancement preyielded the King by a mere generation. Voila! So tright here, perhaps now everyone can be content. Except Jaroslav of course... Poor Jarolsav, I"m certain he is rather upcollection that an arrogant and dumb Amerideserve to addressed the issue for him. Betty, Podunk USA Add your answer